The green thing

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Re: The green thing

Postby woodwose » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:25 am

Hi Roy

Thanks for your kind words. Its just a discussion about history. Nothing personal.

I doubt that you and I will ever see eye to eye on matters political since I am a natural born left winger and you come from well... a bit further right. The Norfolk Broads though, well.. that's a different matter.

Best wishes

Nigel
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Re: The green thing

Postby roya » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:57 pm

Hmm seems we have been hacked again SIGH,

but Nige yes indeed we hold different views,what would be nice if Politicians would grow up and follow our lead, im sure things may then get sorted.

or is that a wish to far.
just old and knackered.


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Re: The green thing

Postby Paul » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:43 pm

you should be proud that you can identify right from left in modern politics (unlike the politicians who seem to struggle with right from wrong!) It seems to me that between communism and facism lies a big grey morass. Certainly not worth falling out over!
If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.”

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Re: The green thing

Postby woodwose » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:32 pm

You know, this thread started out as a joke. You can make something funny by selecting the things from history that support your view and rubbishing the rest. Its just that I am not sure that that is much of a joke. History has much to teach us if we will only listen, but we have to listen to it all.

As for left and right, well traditionally we come to some sort of compromise in the middle. Sadly though, we have seen recently quite large numbers of people voting for a fascist party, and bearing in mind what happened last time that happened it has to be more than a bit concerning.

I grew up just after the Second World War. It was my parent's generation who had to fight in that war, many did not come home. Now I can tell you that my Dad did not enjoy getting into his aircraft not knowing if he was going to live or die but at least he could think he was fighting for freedom. That freedom, won in blood, was for everyone and it gave us all, whoever we are, Brits, Europeans, Eastern Europeans, Migrants, everyone, the right to vote. I'm not so sure he would have been pleased to hear about who people have been voting for recently.

I don't claim to be an expert and I'm certainly not a politician, so here are some words from Michael Rosen on the subject:

I sometimes fear that people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress worn by grotesques and monsters as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis. Fascism arrives as your friend. It will restore your honour, make you feel proud, protect your house, give you a job, clean up the neighbourhood, remind you of how great you once were, clear out the venal and the corrupt, remove anything you feel is unlike you...It doesn't walk in saying, "Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."

It's not really all that long ago. Have we forgotten already?

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Re: The green thing

Postby VetChugger » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:36 pm

Really very well put Nigel and a very relevant quote which could easily refer to some of the very unpleasant politics that were surfacing during the recent Euro elections.
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Re: The green thing

Postby RICHGRAFIX.CO.UK » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:53 pm

As a child of the 60s I was not aware of green issues, I had 2 brothers and a sister and my mum through no fault of her own raised us on her own, she worked full time, sometimes 2 jobs and paid for childcare, no tax credits or dss in them days though she did get some family allowance my father never paid a penny in maintenance, equally as we grew up we played out, got dirty, tired out, swam in the local lagoon, played football and cricket on the local recreation ground, we also collected "and liberated" the Corona bottles and the sterilised milk bottles and cashed them in at Cider Annies corner shop for sweets, then when she put them round the back in the yard we would liberate them again and take them to Woodruffs Off Licence! they soon twigged that one so started marking the labels, we would build rope swings, climb trees, build dams in the beck, load bales during haymaking for 2 and 6 a day, I had a morning paper round, evening paper round, Saturday milk round and a Sunday paper round when I was 14 and worked on the local farm the rest of my free time, I was as fit as a butchers dog in them days, I do not remember smogs but I had heard of them but living between Leeds and Bradford we seemed to escape them, I remember smokeless fuel being introduced but did not understand the why's and wherefores. I remember the trams being replaced with buses, I remember cigarettes being sold singularily, Asbestos dust on the roads and pavements at Armley and a 101 Dalmations for the first time! and the Saturday Matinee

We had an innocence and an ignorance in the good old days, we were fed the news that the government of the day felt we needed to have, we trusted the BBC and newspapers to delver the truth that we believed unquestionably as we had no reason to distrust the version of the truth we were given, this all changed in the 80s when the versions of the truth varied during the miners strikes and the Falklands depending on which satallite station you were watching but above all the TV series of Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister although a comedy made an political statement something that was to be questioned not only for its content but what it also omitted! then came the internet and the reducing cost of computer ownership meant the information was out there, now the vast majority live in a state of being constantly connected, whether by Computer, Mobile Phone or Tablet the Internet is just a few milliseconds away, research has shown that in the last 10 years our connected culture means we have wider interests in music genres, we are more tolerant of others preferences and are more likely to explore new interests shared with us by people we do trust and are less trusting of the media than ever,,, thinking back to my youth the only political scandals I remember were John Stonehouse and the Jeremy Thorpe "Gay" scoop! almost laughable now that these caused so much of a stir,

The point I am trying to get across is that we have more sources of information available to us that we ever had then, the opportunity to be "Green" comes with the knowledge that we did not have available to us when I was a lad,

As a child of the 60s I have now learnt to do my bit for the environment, I recycle, I buy organic where possible, I avoid wastage but cannot blame anyone for environmental issues they were not aware of such as the hole in the ozone layer or rising sea levels as it was not discovered until the technology was available to make such measurements so a little bit of a jump to say measurements of the last 25 years can justify the last 5000 years of mankind's influence on the planet. it may be these are just natural cycles but they may be "our fault" maybe not so its worth making the effort just in case.

I sometimes wish that I still had the pleasure of those halcyon days of innocence and ignorance again, I suppose one day I will, they call it Alkzheimers.
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